Training Manual |
Chat Archives | Retention Issues 6/18/01
Submitted by
neda on 04/08/2002
JulieMcIntyre just entered this room...
From maryam@dcck:: Welcome, Julie, where are you from?
From Julie McIntyre:: Hi, happy to talk to you again.
From dccksusan:: now I am slowing down the typing speed
From Julie McIntyre:: Duluth, MN, Opportunities Cooking
Program at Damiano
From maryam@dcck:: Julie, did you get a chance to read the
questions before you logged on the chat?
From dccksusan:: The first questions to get started are who,
what and why.
From Julie McIntyre:: Yes, I'm very interested in retention
issues. So much so that I'm doing this at home on a sick day.
From dccksusan:: And then there is how? Julie how do you
collect data for retention numbers?
From dccksusan:: Julie I am on a personal holiday, it is my
husband’s birthday.
From Julie McIntyre:: By keeping in touch with my graduates,
and their employers. CaseySutherlandServices just entered this
room...
From dccksusan:: How do you keep in touch? Personal contact
or telephone?
From maryam@dcck:: Hi Casey.
From dccksusan:: For an FYI I will start with information
that the Dept of Labor uses, unless we contact the employer with a
verification we cannot could it as a contact.
From Julie McIntyre:: Both, they always come back to visit
after graduation, usually for the first three or four months. Then
communication is monthly.
From dccksusan:: A phone call, or even a visit from a grad is
not a verifiable employment contact.
From dccksusan:: I think every training program should make a
conscious decision about how they want to use 'retention'
information.
From Julie McIntyre:: The employer is always happy to stay in
contact with me. They feel our program is a huge help for their
business.
From dccksusan:: Casey and Julie do you have to report any
numbers for grant information?
From Julie McIntyre:: Yes. I keep all info in an Access
Database.
From CaseySutherlandServices:: Susan, once we get started we
will have to report numbers to HUD and I'm sure other funders.
From dccksusan:: Great do you use any consistent method?
From CaseySutherlandServices:: To everyone, how do you keep
accurate retention data on students? aretha@abelcks just entered
this room... linda just entered this room...
From dccksusan:: DCCK uses an Excel spreadsheet for data.
From Julie McIntyre:: I really like the Access Database, once
you set it up the way you need it, all you have to do is go in and
update info.
From dccksusan:: Our methodology is to call the employer at 2
weeks, 1 month , 3 months, and then at 6 months.
From dccksusan:: DCCK uses an excel spreadsheet for data.
From Julie McIntyre:: I really like the Access Database, once
you set it up the way you need it, all you have to do is go in and
update info.
From dccksusan:: Our methodology is to call the employer at 2
weeks, 1 month , 3 mon, and then at 6 mon.
Submitted by
neda on 04/08/2002
From Julie McIntyre:: I make phone calls to employers and
drop by for a visit occasionally.
From linda:: doesn't the retention problem start with
training too? we have about half graduate from those that start
From dccksusan:: Several federal funders may require you to
use a specific piece of software.
From dccksusan:: retention should be, and this is my opinion.
From CaseySutherlandServices:: So, it seems like the best way
to keep retention data is through the employers, rather than the
students... that makes sense. What kind of graduate contact do you
have?
From dccksusan:: Retention is after placement, COMPLETION is
getting them through the program.
From linda:: We have a student liasion who is part time, and
he does some contact with employers.
From Julie McIntyre:: Mathmatical Research has done extensive
studies on retention, they have info from a variety of programs
across the country. Their findings are very interesting.
From dccksusan:: I think if you want to appear as
professional as possible, get your numbers from the employer
From dccksusan:: I like the student liasion idea, we have a
retention specialist.
From maryam@dcck:: Julie, where can we find those studies?
From CaseySutherlandServices:: Julie, Where can you find the
results from the Mathmatica Research study?
From Julie McIntyre:: I've established good relationships
with many employers who hire our people, and I've found that is the
best way to help our students in the long-run. The employer comes on
board with the program and stays in contact with me if any problems
develop so we can assist the graduate together.
Submitted by
neda on 04/08/2002
From Julie McIntyre:: Just type Mathmatical Research onto
your browser.
From dccksusan:: DCCK also has the students sign a graduate
contract, This states that the grad wil contact the Kitchen if there
are problems on the job. They will not just quit.
From dccksusan:: The employer knows about this and knows he
can contact the retention specialist if he has any questions.
From linda:: we have that same contract, but we find that
they don't always care, they sign it at the beginning of training.
From dccksusan:: we have talked about how to get this data,
but no one has said how often and for how long? janeKCCK just
entered this room...
From CaseySutherlandServices:: Julie, what are some good
strategies for developing good relationships with employers?
From aretha@abelcks:: Julie, the math..research is done
through al ot of colleges, so there might be a university in
your/our area that might assist us personally, do you have any info
or insight on that?
From Julie McIntyre:: We have a contract also, what do you do
if the graduate does not hold to the agreement?
From dccksusan:: If a grad just quits or is a no show, we
will no longer give a good reference, or assist in job search,
unless they work with us again.
From dccksusan:: Trainees know about the contract in the
begining but it is signed at/or around graduation.
From Julie McIntyre:: Visit employers during down-time,
before or after lunch rush. Explain what your program is and how you
can be of service to the employer.
From dccksusan:: The job skills and life skills portion of
training address this throughout training.
Submitted by
neda on 04/08/2002
From linda:: We do a lot of repeating and repeating about not
walking off the job and let us help them from quitting, but it
doesn't always work, sometimes they think that they are
disappointing us so they don't tell us what's up.
From dccksusan:: That is true, but we stress personal
responsibility and that we are there to help, but they must play our
way.
From Julie McIntyre:: Aretha, no I don't. The Math site has
contact info. JaneKCCK just entered this room...
From linda:: hi, Jane
From dccksusan:: Hi, Jane take a seat.
From JaneKCCK:: Sorry I'm late
From Julie McIntyre:: Thanks Susan, I've been doing the same
thing. I worked with two grads, but not with two others.
From dccksusan:: If a grad is looking like they are about to
repeat an action that is trouble for them, we tell them straight up,
not a good idea.
From dccksusan:: It doesn't, rarely stop them, but we try
anyway.
From dccksusan:: I will ask the question again, how often do
you guys collect retention data?
From JaneKCCK:: We try to collect monthly. Contact with
mentors helps.
From Julie McIntyre:: Susan, I collect it monthly.
From dccksusan:: DCCK is required by our funding to keep data
on grads for 6 months
From dccksusan:: Julie how long do you keep monthly contact?
From aretha@abelcks:: Susan, we try to collect in a six week
period, but after six months we're still in touch with some.
From Julie McIntyre:: We keep it for one year, more if they
continue to use our services.
From dccksusan:: And another FYI, our HUD grant sets a
benchmark of what our retention levels 'should' be.
From dccksusan:: Wow, two years? A lot of work.
From JaneKCCK:: Can you give us an example of HUD
expectations?
Submitted by
neda on 04/08/2002
From aretha@abelcks:: susan, I'm was wondering about HUD too!
From dccksusan:: A quyuestion for all of us... what if you
can't find someone, how do you figure them?
From dccksusan:: sorry about my spelling
From aretha@abelcks:: susan, also is HUD the best one to get
funding for our type of program verses the other government funders?
From dccksusan:: HUD benchmark is 80% at 6 months.
From JaneKCCK:: Susan, Fortunately our classes have been
small enough we don't have too much difficulty in tracking grads.
From aretha@abelcks:: susan, most of my people are
referrals,so I would go back to the referral source if I couldn't
find that person, lukily I haven't had that problem yet.
From dccksusan:: HUD is not the easiest funder, they are
about getting people into housing, most of the money now goes
through DOL.
From Julie McIntyre:: Through the employer, it helps to go
there for meals. If the graduate has moved on, doesn't have a phone
and doesn't stay in contact....then what?
From JaneKCCK:: Is the 80% based on other work related
training programs? And are they funding welfare to work?
From dccksusan:: When I was the program director, we had a
72% retention at 6 months.
From dccksusan:: Housing, homeless-continum of care...Labor
is welfare to work.
From JaneKCCK:: What does HUD do if the 80% is not met?
From Julie McIntyre:: Susan, ours has been hovering around
70-75%. But it varies.
From dccksusan:: So far, we haven't had that become an issue,
our group who adminsters the grant- hasn't made it an issue. I think
the mark was set too high, and this was done 4 years ago.
From JaneKCCK:: I agree HUD is difficult. We had a continuum
of care grant for housing and did not renew.
From dccksusan:: Every state will handle the grant
differently.
From dccksusan:: d Jane DOL is much stricter when they talk
about retention and WORK FIRST
From dccksusan:: We have a DOL funding stream and we must pay
the trainee a wage while here. Remember DOL is all about a wage.
From dccksusan:: The hardest part about welfar to work is the
trainee is rarely ready for the workforce. But DOL requires WORK
FIRST.
From JaneKCCK:: Do all your students receive a wage? How much
per hour?
Submitted by
neda on 04/08/2002
From CaseySutherlandServices:: Susan, does HUD also have a
benchmark for graduation rates?
From dccksusan:: DOL want to say folks are off welfare and in
the workplace, paying child support and TAXES.
From dccksusan:: Any student who is a TANF client receives
$7.50 wage. And it;s part of the grant.
From Julie McIntyre:: I think one of the important aspects of
successful retention is case management, we have also contracted
with a local mental health clinic for a part-time community mental
health person.
From JaneKCCK:: How do you deal with non-TANF students? Is it
not discrimination to pay some and not all?
From dccksusan:: Back to the HUD grant, they do not have a
completion rate, but they only fund 48 per year. To get that we
enroll about 65 people.
From Julie McIntyre:: How do all of you sucessfully achieve
retention?
From dccksusan:: Back to the HUD grant, they do not have a
completion rate, but they aonly fund 48 per year. To get that we
enroll about 65 people. mojo just entered this room...
From dccksusan:: Julie I don't understand
From Julie McIntyre:: What?
From dccksusan:: And to answer you question the fact that we
pay a wage to some, and not to others, has not become an issue, and
several of our grant partners do the same and none have problems.
From dccksusan:: What do you mean by achieve retention?
From JaneKCCK:: Julie, we too think case management is a key.
We had a social worker part time for a while and she was very
effective with students and grads. We also have an arrangement with
a mental health organization which provides a case manager to
provide recovery consultation. That seems to be helping
From CaseySutherlandServices:: I must get going. Thank you
all for the chat - I got some helpful info.
Submitted by
neda on 04/08/2002
From dccksusan:: We use the word retention meaning to keep a
job. CaseySutherlandServices just left this room...
From Julie McIntyre:: Thank you Jane. We have just started on
that road,I'm glad to hear it has been helpful
From dccksusan:: We have a retention specialist and all of
the issues around keeping a job are hopefully addressed in job
skills and life skills classes.
From linda:: do you measure retention by 6mon. or 1 year?
From aretha@abelcks:: I have to get going too, looking
forward to reading it on the discussion board. Thanks everybody!
From dccksusan:: bye aretha
From JaneKCCK:: We have assigned mentors, who are supposed to
contact grads bi-weekly. This one way we have improved retention by
having a support system.
From Julie McIntyre:: I guess I mean we are suppose to figure
out what works best, if we find what is most successful, our program
has made a step in the right direction (achievement).
From aretha@abelcks:: bye susan ...& maryam
From maryam@dcck:: Bye Aretha
From dccksusan:: we track retention at 1 mon, 3 mon, and 6
mon. aretha@abelcks just left this room...
From dccksusan:: All in all if we do a good job of training,
then tracking is the next step.
From dccksusan:: DCCK publishes retention figures monthly
internally, and then adds annual numbers to the annual report, of
course any new grant we go after we use numbers as well.
From Julie McIntyre:: Susan, we have to find ways of helping
our students do that. Whether it is through incentives, life skills
training, mentors or finding their motivation.
From dccksusan:: I think it is useful to be able to support
any retention figure with solid data. If a funder, or potential
funder wants to see your success rate, your tracking will do that
for you. I like the incentive idea, can you tell us more about that?
From JaneKCCK:: I have said it before, but 12 weeks is hardly
enough time to assist people in major behaviorial changes. It really
needs to be on-going and I beleive that is where we are having the
problem, with only so much funding. People need to get out of
whatever has brought them in the situation they are in to need our
help in the first place and that is hard to do.
From Julie McIntyre:: I'm very impressed with all of the
great work everyone has done with their programs and have gotten
important info to use from all of you. connie just entered this
room...
From dccksusan:: HI connie From connie: hi everyone... just
dropping in to see what's goin' on...
From dccksusan:: My poor spelling is the best part of this
Connie From connie: yes it is! It looks like there were a lot of
people chatting today. Were you the host, Susan?
From Julie McIntyre:: We have used incentives to keep
students in the program, now we are looking to replace that with
incentives for staying on the job. We haven't quite figured out yet.
Any ideas?
From dccksusan:: I even find time to laugh at myself ;-)
From dccksusan:: One thing I learned last week at a DOL
meeting, is DOL is considering letting welfare moms keep their check
if they stay employed - now that is an incentive. What sorts of
incentives do you use Julie From connie: I better get back to work.
Susan, I'll call you tomorrow. connie just left this room...
From Julie McIntyre:: Monetary seemed to work the best.
Twenty dollars at the end of each month for no absent days and $100
at the end of the 12 weeks for no absences.
From JaneKCCK:: I know the RI program uses food boxes as an
incentive. We use stipends. The housing component was supposed to be
the ultimate carrot as they had to stay employed to remain in the
housing. Unfortunately we weren't really ready to take that huge
next step.
Submitted by
neda on 04/08/2002
From dccksusan:: WOW that is great, who funds that?
From Julie McIntyre:: The incentive is aside from the
stipends and it came out of our student support budget.
From JaneKCCK:: We give stipends of $25 per week, funded
through grants. Any missed day and they don't get that day's
allotment.
From dccksusan:: Very interesting idea.
From Julie McIntyre:: Excuse my spelling, the C and M don't
work unless you bang them.
From dccksusan:: Just so you guys know we have worked all the
questions I proposed, does anyone have something we have not
addressed?
From dccksusan:: Please don't worry about spelling have you
seen mine?
From Julie McIntyre:: Jane..we do that too, if they aren't at
work, do they get paid? So it is work practice.
From JaneKCCK:: They don't get paid for any miss regardless
of reason.
From dccksusan:: Same here at DCCK , no show no money...
From Julie McIntyre:: Any ideas for job retention incentives?
linda just left this room...
From dccksusan:: Is there any better incentive than money?
From dccksusan:: Build it into any grant you write and
receive.
From Julie McIntyre:: I agree with both Jane and Susan; if we
coddle them in the program, they are in for culture shock in the
real world.
From dccksusan:: In a meeting with our DOL folks last week
they want to write DOL grants that way in the future.
From JaneKCCK:: Maybe we could somehow reward them for good
performance, ie. salary increase, recognition or promotion. I think
the food idea is good. But I am still convinced housing to remove
them from the past is the ultimate tool.
From dccksusan:: Housing is good, here in DC section 8
housing is SO scarce, we couldn't do a thing with it.
From JaneKCCK:: Grantors like to see that programs are
interested in the future success of the students. It is not a hard
sell.
From dccksusan:: Our list for section 8 housing is over 1200
people on a wait list.
Submitted by
neda on 04/08/2002
From Julie McIntyre:: Jane…I agree with your housing idea! I
feel the same way. Who did you partner with, HUD?
From dccksusan:: There is little affordable housing here.
From JaneKCCK:: I mean get them out of Section 8 and other
programs that stereotype them as losers. Our section 8 also has huge
wait lists, YEARS!
From dccksusan:: I have one final question... should we as
individual programs post our retention figures on our web site?
From dccksusan:: I agree with the sec 8 housing, but the only
housing in DC is HIGH rent, most 2 bedrooms, if they are avaialbe is
$800 a month. Try to pay that on $7.50 an hour.
From JaneKCCK:: We partnered with the City who administered
part of the local Continuum of Care HUD grant. Our problem was that
the property management company we were working with changed all the
rules making most of our people ineligible due to their past
baggage.
From Julie McIntyre:: A couple of things I'm trying out for
my graduates is being on the board of a community Entrepeneur Fund
to help low income people start their own businesses. I'm hoping
that will assist some of my grads.
From dccksusan:: I have met recently several faith-based
groups who are doing housing, a real great idea.
From Julie McIntyre:: Susan…I'd be willing to do that..
From dccksusan:: Well I am going to let Maryam work on the
posting part. I can get it done from DCCK.
From JaneKCCK:: Julie, that sounds like a great idea. Do you
have additional entrepreneurial training available for them? I'm
afraid business ownership may be a huge step for recent grads.
From dccksusan:: I want to thank everyone who stopped by
today. I had a great time, even if I can't type.
From JaneKCCK:: Thanks all
From dccksusan:: As I said in the beginning I am home today,
personal holiday...but this was great.
From dccksusan:: Do we have a topic for the next chat Maryam?
From Julie McIntyre:: They have to go through a three month
course on every aspect of business ownership, business plans,
financial statements, the whole nine yards. All that before they are
able to start the actual work of going to the board.
From maryam@dcck:: Not yet. Any ideas anyone?
JaneKCCK just left this room...
From Julie McIntyre:: Thank you everyone.
From dccksusan:: So I guess that is it, see everyone later!
From maryam@dcck:: Thanks everyone. And thanks for hosting
this, Susan!
Submitted by Susan
Callahan on 04/10/2002 posted 6/5/2001 8:08:00 AM:
Questions for Retention chat Planned format 75 minutes on June 18th
1. What does graduate retention mean to your training program? 2.
How do you collect information on job retention/ 3. Who collects
information and is it verified for accuracy? 4. How often does this
process happen? 5. What do you do with the figures once they are
calculated? 6. If you create reports what do you do with the? Why?
7. What about the idea of generating a standard annual report of
graduates and retention for the web site?
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